Update from OS 10.12 to 10.12.2 Problem

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I still have Mac OS X 10.8 available in my App Store account should I ever want to use it again.

To be more precise, you have that in your App Store account until Apple decides that you shouldn't have that in your App Store account. One day you'll log in to your account and, poof, it will be gone.
 
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To be more precise, you have that in your App Store account until Apple decides that you shouldn't have that in your App Store account. One day you'll log in to your account and, poof, it will be gone.

Not true! Once again, you are "bashing" Apple, but once again, you are wrong. I just "went" to the App Store, looked at my "Purchased" Items tab, left the App Store, went back again, and all those items are still there within my "Purchased" items.

Update: I just did this 3 times, ie, logged out of my account, then logged back in, and everything is still there!
 
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OK, a more "detailed" update. When I first selected Yosemite to download from my "Purchased" list, I did initially get a warning, regrading the fact that I had a newer version (Sierra) of the OS my machine (my Mac Mini, in this case). But, I proceeded to download it. It took about 25 minutes, and when it completed, I got another message about the "oldness" of Yosemite. But so what! The thing is, that download did not start up the installation of Yosemite, which was fine by me.

As expected, the resulting file, entitled "Install OS X Yosemite", wound up in my Applications folder. I subsequently removed/deleted it. But, it was still available for download with my "Purchased" list. So, it does not go away. I did not bother to check which version, but from all indications, it was V10.10.0, ie, the initial version.

One other anomaly: I listed above the 5 Mac OS versions I still have within my "Purchases" list. Interestingly, for El Capitan, the button I would click to download it says "Install", but for the other 4, it says "Download". Not sure why that is the case. Maybe someone can explain why.
 
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I have been unable to find a 10.12 installer. I tried looking at Purchases in the App Store, but no OS is listed there.
I cannot proceed without an installer.
 
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I have been unable to find a 10.12 installer. I tried looking at Purchases in the App Store, but no OS is listed there.
I cannot proceed without an installer.

As I mentioned above, you will not see any "purchases" of OS 10.12.x in your Purchased items (I had misstated that above). That will not happen until after Apple releases the next version of the Mac OS, probably in the fall. Myself, I have downloaded Sierra 3 times from the App Store, V10.12.1, V10.12.2, and V10.12.4, and not any of those appear within my "Purchased" items.

So, you can only download the latest version of Sierra, OS 10.12.4, from the App Store. There will be no versions of Sierra shown within your Purchased items. The steps to do that are:

1. Sign in to the App Store.

2. Click on the "Featured" icon.

3. On the next screen, on the right, you'll see "macOS Sierra". Click on that, and then you can proceed with the download.

Also, once you download OS 10.12.4, don't continue with the installation. Just quit that. How then do you plan on 1) erasing and formatting your internal drive, 2) installing OS 10.12.4, and 3) "migrating"/copying needed stuff from your backup? It would be best if you let us know step by step how you plan on accomplishing this.

Additionally, as I mentioned previously, you also need to insure that whatever third party software you are using, that each of those is compatible with Sierra. If necessary, you might need to download updates for such programs. I did ask you previously how you handled that when you upgraded from Lion (OS 10.7.5) to Sierra (OS 10.12.0). Did those third party apps work OK? Even that is not a guarantee, as you really need to check if there are any updates to any of those third party apps you have.
 
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A little more assistance for you. I am assuming that your external drive contains both your Time Machine/OS 10.7.5 backups, and also the "clone copy" backup of your "problematic" OS 10.12.2 system (on separate partitions, I assume). If that is the scenario, can you boot your Mac from the clone copy? That could be helpful/critical as to how you would proceed with this.

If you can't do that, then the best way to proceed would be to make a bootable OS 10.12.4 Installer on a 32 gig Flash Drive. This link explains how to accomplish that, ie, constructing the OS 10.12.4 bootable installer on the flash drive:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
 
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I cannot find a full installation version of 10.12 (or any update). What if I use Time Machine to roll back to 10.7.5 and then go to 10.12? Would that work?
 
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I cannot find a full installation version of 10.12 (or any update). What if I use Time Machine to roll back to 10.7.5 and then go to 10.12? Would that work?

That is not what you want to do! Did you follow my instructions about going to the App Store, signing in, clicking on the "Featured" icon, and then seeing "macOS Sierra" on the right hand side of that subsequent screen?

Also, when are you going to answer my other questions? I am truly trying to help you, and there is not a simple, "push a few buttons" solution. It is going to take some time and effort on your part. But, first you need to answer all the questions I have previously posed.

There are (hopefully) software issues with your internal drive, and thus a detailed process is necessary. This is also another excellent example of why it is so, so critical and important to perform disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, from a software perspective, on a frequent basis.
 
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I thought I replied to your questions. I am doing the best I can. The thread was confusing for me since other dialogues started. I realize that a simple solution is not possible.


I see now that downloading 10.12.4 (4.95 gB) is possible when I sign out of the App Store..

However I want to download to a thumb drive which is listed (not the HD). When I click on the thumb drive I get the following message:

"This disk doesn’t use the GUID Partition table scheme.

Use Disk Utility to change the partition scheme.

Select the device containing the disk, click the Erase button,

select the volume scheme, and then click Erase."


What I don't get here is how to "select the volume scheme" and why it directs one to click erase twice.
 
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I see now that downloading 10.12.4 (4.95 gB) is possible when I sign out of the App Store..

However I want to download to a thumb drive which is listed. When I click on it I get the following message:

"This disk doesn’t use the GUID Partition table scheme.

Use Disk Utility to change the partition scheme.

Select the device containing the disk, click the Erase button,

select the volume scheme, and then click Erase."

What I don't get here is how to "select the volume scheme" and why it directs one to click erase twice.
 
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I finally got 10.12.4 of 4.95 gB. Tried to use Diskmaker to make a bootable version on the Mac formatted thumb drive and got this message.
Can’t set disk "Install macOS Sierra" to "DMX_Workdisk".
The drive is now named "Install Mac OS" (renamed by Diskmaker)
 
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At least you found where to download OS 10.12.4. But you cannot download it to a thumb drive. I provided instructions above about making an OS 10.12.4 bootable thumb drive (ie, flash drive) from the file that gets downloaded to your Applications older. You need to read (or re-read) it. Here it is again:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

Specifically, when you download OS 10.12.4 from the App Store to your machine, a file entitled "Install macOS Sierra" will be in your Applications folder. That is stated in step 1 of that link, ie:

  1. Download the macOS installer from the Mac App Store. Quit the installer if it opens automatically after downloading. The installer will be in your Applications folder
Note the statement "Quit the installer if it opens automatically after downloading". That is what is going to happen when the download completes, ie, you are going to get an "Installer" window. Quit out of that.

Next, plug in your flash drive, launch Disk Utility (within the Utilities folder, contained in your Applications folder), select your Flash Drive as the source (it should be listed in Disk Utility's screen, on the left side), and click on "Erase" You will then get a screen that says the Name of that drive (most likely something generic), and also Format. I'm not sure what it will say, but if it does not say "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)", click on the "Up/Down" arrow button to the right, and select that exact format. Then, click Erase.

From there, you can proceed with the remainder of the instructions in the link I provided. One other thing: make a copy of that "Install macOS Sierra" file in an external location, just in case you need it again.

Once you complete making that bootable OS 10.12.4 Flash Drive, you should be able to boot your machine from that (most likely will not be too speedy), use Disk Utility there to Erase and Format your internal drive on your Mac, then do a fresh, clean, "virgin" installation of OS 10.12.4.

When that completes, you should be offered the opportunity to "migrate"/copy needed stuff from a backup. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of choices includes the verbiage "Time Machine backup", or something like that. What I am not sure of is if the OS on the flash drive will "see" your OS 10.7.5 Time Machine backup (I do this installation/migration process from a bootable backup on my external drive (SSD in my case), and the place I need to get my "stuff" from is listed).

If you don't migrate anything, then at some point, you'll have to go through the process of setting up your machine (including Network/Internet "stuff").

You still have not said anything about third party apps, so I guess that is up to you. I tried to offer advice about that.

One other thing: when you use Disk Utility on the Flash Drive to Erase and Format your internal drive, hopefully there are no "serious" hardware issues with the internal drive.
 
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I finally got 10.12.4 of 4.95 gB. Tried to use Diskmaker to make a bootable version on the Mac formatted thumb drive and got this message.
Can’t set disk "Install macOS Sierra" to "DMX_Workdisk".
The drive is now named "Install Mac OS" (renamed by Diskmaker)

You should have followed the Apple link I provided. But, which "Install Mac OS" file are you talking about? Is it the one inside your Applications folder? If it is that one, you should first rename it to "Install macOS Sierra". Then, follow my post above about formatting the Flash Drive, making a copy, in an external location, of that "Install macOS Sierra" file, and follow the remainder of the instructions on the Apple link.

Regarding DiskMaker, first it needs to be DiskMaker X. Secondly, the latest version is available from here:

http://diskmakerx.com/

But, it does not say whether or not that version, "rc3", is compatible with OS 10.12.4. So, it might be best if you follow the Apple instructions.
 
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I thought I replied to your questions.

I have not seen a clear explanation of your external device/devices, and how they are set up. Also, for the third party apps, you never answered my question about what you did about those when you initially upgraded from OS 10.7.5 to OS 10.12, and whether or not they still work fine.

Be that as it may (all of that is up to you), I did see where you were able to download OS 10.12.4, and that you were able to correctly format your flash drive. But making a bootable OS 10.12.4 flash drive is still not done yet. Again, I provided that Apple link for you. Not sure why DiskMaker X won't work, as some other folks here have successfully used it. Again, as I mentioned in that prior post, not sure if that latest version, "rc3", is compatible with OS 10.12.4. Thus, it might be best if you followed the instructions on the Apple link I provided.
 
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I have a 3 tB external drive formatted for Mac. There are no issues with 3rd party apps. I am ONLY addressing the issue here of the OS. I used Diskmaker X6 to put the 10.12.4 file on the thumb drive. However, the 10.12.4 installation file on the thumb drive is 1.9gB rather than the 4.95gb file I downloaded. Not sure where to go from here. Maybe erase the thumb drive and start over? I will try renaming the file as you suggested and try again.
Thanks
 
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OK, do what you want with the third party apps. Also, good to hear that your 3 TB external drive is OK. Is it partitioned? And is that where your OS 10.7.5 backups are?

All right, I just hope you appreciate this! I erased and formatted a 64 gig Flash Drive via Disk Utility, and I named it "MyVolume" (makes it easier when using the command from the Apple link I provided). I first tried DiskMaker X, but got an error. So, I then followed the instructions exactly as in the Apple link I provided (the name of the downloaded OS 10.12.4 file was (as initially) "Install macOS Sierra"). That is, I launched Terminal, and "entered" the command:

"sudo /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Sierra.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/MyVolume --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Sierra.app"

(I actually copied and pasted that command). After asking for my admin password, it let me know that it was going to Erase and Format the Flash Drive which I had name MyVolume. The process then took about 15 minutes, and it created a bootable Flash Drive that was 5.14 gig in size. I then restarted my Mac from the Flash Drive, and although it was somewhat slow, it eventually got to the familiar macOSUtilities screen, with 4 choices. One of the choices was install MacOS (or something like that), and when I selected it, I got a screen to start the installation of Sierra. I of course quit that, as I did not need to install/re-install OS 10.12.4.

But, the point is that if you follow Apple's instructions via the link I provided (making sure that 1) the name of the file in your Applications folder is "Install macOS Sierra", and 2) to make it easier (ie, the KISS philosophy), made the name of my Flash Drive "MyVolume"). Also, when you boot your Mac from the Flash Drive, the 4th choice on the initial menu is "Disk Utility". You should select that first to Verify and Repair your internal drive. Assuming the drive is OK, you can then have Disk Utility Erase and Format that internal drive.

Next, select the option about Installing macOS, and proceed with a fresh, clean, "virgin" installation of OS 10.12.4. When that completes, you should be offered the opportunity to "migrate"/copy needed "stuff" from your Time Machine backup (actually, can be from any backup). Once that completes, restart your Mac, and you should be good to go.

From this experience, I am so, so glad to do my backups via SuperDuper!. Booting from the Flash Drive is definitely slower than booting from my external SSD drive. I wonder how quick the installation/"migrating"/copying process is from the Flash Drive compared to when I do it from the SuperDuper! clone. Given that everything is on the same partition on the external SSD, including the "stuff" to be "migrated"/copied, I suspect that would be much, much faster.

Finally, if you want your machine to be "lean, mean, and clean", you really should get into the practice of performing disk cleaning/maintenance/repairs, from a software perspective, on a frequent basis. There are things you can do on your own regarding disk cleanup, and there are also some excellent tools (both free and commercial) that are very, very helpful also. It's up to you.

One more note: usually, for "in the same Mac OS" updates, it should be OK to just use the appropriate Combo Updater. So for example, if Apple releases V10.12.5 of Sierra, it should be OK to just download it and apply it to one's OS 10.12.0, 10.12.1, 10.12.2, 10.12.3, or 10.12.4 system. However, that depends on how "clean" one's current system is. It does not hurt to actually do a clean, fresh installation of the new version "once in a while". But, when going from an older Mac OS to a new one, the way to go is via a fresh, clean installation of the new OS. And if one has been performing disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, and backups, it is just about guaranteed that process will be successful.
 
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@honestone Many thanks for taking so much time with me. I do appreciate it. There was confusion before as I did not see some of your earlier posts until I realized there was a second page. Also, I entered the same question on two other forums. Sorry for any confusion that caused, but I believe in looking at multiple opinions.
Maybe I did not understand about 3rd party apps. I figured that I just have to download and install them again.
If there is something else, please let me know. I am currently going through the apps looking for aspects which I want to save (eg Firefox profile).

OK, I will follow your instructions, but it may take a few days as I am busy with life and when I go to do the installation I want to be entirely focused on this.

I am looking into SuperDuper. Is your experience that this app is "better" than Time Machine?

You wrote
"Finally, if you want your machine to be "lean, mean, and clean", you really should get into the practice of performing disk cleaning/maintenance/repairs, from a software perspective, on a frequent basis. There are things you can do on your own regarding disk cleanup, and there are also some excellent tools (both free and commercial) that are very, very helpful also. It's up to you."
I have hesitated to get any cleaning/maintenance apps as I had some negative results many years ago with Windows. Can you please give some recommendations? When one drags an App to the trash with a Mac, is anything left behind which could cause problems?

I hesitated to do a clean install when I went from 10.7.5 to 10.12 because one of my apps is to run a musical instrument, and there is a learning curve with how to carry over all the settings/tweaks. Just did not want to be bothered. I often hesitate to update apps since many of the updates are just bloat for me...things which I will never use. That's why I hung on to 10.7.5 for so long. It was working perfectly for what I want/need. I only consented to update when I heard that support for 10.7 would end. The transition from 10.7.5 to 10.12 went completely smoothly. It was only when I messed up on an update that I had problems (as far as I know)...

Many Thanks...
 
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OK, some more comments/answers to your questions:

1. For third party applications, it is important that you check whether the app is still compatible with OS 10.12.x, ie, Sierra. If it is, then the next step would be to insure that the version you currently have is either compatible, or that there is a newer version available that is compatible. It's best not to take a "blind" approach and just download whatever version is available. Most of the time (as long as the app is still compatible with the new OS you plan on using), that's OK. But it's always best to keep on top of things like that on your own.

Myself, I have 6 key third party apps:

SuperDuper!
TechTool Pro
Onyx
1Password
Office 2016 (mainly Outlook, the EMail program that I use)
Logitech Control Center (for the Logitech mice I use with each of my Macs)

In fact, I will not upgrade to a new Mac OS until all of them are compatible (either as they are, or with updates (which seems to be always the case)). For the last two releases of the new Mac OS (El Capitan and Sierra), I did not upgrade (via a clean installation) to the initial version, as some of my third party apps did not have upgrades available at that time. So, for El Capitan, I started with OS 10.11.1, and similarly for Sierra, I started with OS 10.12.1.

2. I don't need to do daily backups, although that can be done with SuperDuper!. The thing about SuperDuper! (Carbon Copy Cloner is another, similar, excellent program) is that it makes an exact, bootable clone of your system when you back it up. Note that I said bootable. That means I can start either of my Macs from any such backup. It is actually like having another machine, ie, the SSD where I have the backup is like having another Mac! It definitely makes recovery easier, and similarly with what you need to go through. Recently I made a mistake on my MacBook Air, as I removed all my EMails in my In Box (and while on vacation, of all things)! Yes, definitely not smart! And with Outlook 2016, when I do a deletion of an EMail, I use a key combination to have it permanently removed/deleted. Well, I fortunately had a recent SuperDuper! backup (less than 4 days old), and after first saving some important updated items externally (transactions I had entered in Quicken, and some updates for software I had downloaded), I restarted my machine from the SuperDuper! backup, used Disk Utility there to Erase and Format the internal SSD inside the MacBook Air, did a fresh, clean installation of OS 10.12.4, and then used Migration Assistant to "migrate"/copy needed "stuff" from that latest SuperDuper! backup. I then restarted my MacBook Air, and was back in business. (I also recently did the same thing with my Mac Mini, but it was not due to a catastrophe).

I actually could have just used the Recovery feature of SuperDuper!, which would have avoided the clean installation of OS 10.12.4 (I have used that feature before, and it works fine). But given that it had been a while since I did a clean installation, I decided to proceed as I did. Maybe overkill, but that's OK.

Recovery is possible with Time Machine, but the process (at least to me) seems more involved, and not as straight forward as with SuperDuper! (or Carbon Copy Cloner).

3. As for disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, first of all, I am, on a daily basis, doing disk cleanup. As I mentioned above, with Outlook 2016, when I delete an EMail, it initially gets placed inside the Deleted Items folder. I then use a keyboard combination (actually just holding down the Shift key while selecting Delete for items in that folder) so that the EMail/EMails will be permanently removed/deleted. No sense wasting disk space with deleted EMails.

Also, whenever a new version of an application comes out, after downloading and installing it, I get rid of the previous version. For example, yesterday a new version of 1Password was released. I downloaded and installed it, made sure it worked (as expected, it did, as that is a very solid application), and after saving that new version, got rid of the prior one.

Now, on a weekly basis (typically on Saturdays), I go through 3 steps as part of my disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, and backup processing (I do this for both of my Macs). Here are the steps:

1. I run the excellent freeware program Onyx (available from here: https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html; make sure you get the correct version, ie, once you upgrade, get the one for Sierra). That venerable program has been around for quite some time, has had numerous positive reviews, and besides some useful disk cleaning (and some "basic" disk maintenance), one can also use it to Repair Permissions, a function that was dropped with the versions of Disk Utility in both El Capitan and Sierra. Supposedly, the OS "takes care" of permissions, but Onyx still finds permissions to be repaired.

2. Next, I run the excellent commercial program TechTool Pro (https://www.micromat.com/products/techtool-pro). That is another venerable, solid, and well reviewed program that does more disk cleanup, "deeper" disk maintenance, and if needed, disk repairs. I would not be without it.

3. Finally, I run SuperDuper! and make two backups to two separate external devices (SSDs, in my case). I of course would not be without those backups!

By doing all that, I rarely, if ever, have issues with either of my machines, and both of them run "lean, mean, and clean". I always equate owning and maintaining computers to owning and maintaining an automobile. If one does not have required maintenance done on a car, sooner or later trouble will arise. Well, computers are no different. Besides, it's always beneficial to become more educated with such devices (actually, with most things in life).

As far as deleting apps is concerned, there is an excellent freeware program entitled "AppCleaner" (available from here: https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/; again, make sure you get the correct version). It works very, very well in cleaning up just about all the additional stuff associated with an app (and of course the app itself). I certainly recommend it. Usually for "reputable" Mac apps, just deleting the app itself is OK, but as you can tell, I am paranoid about disk space ("lean and clean"), and thus I use AppCleaner.

One more remark (although I stated it earlier): I can understand why you wanted to upgrade from OS 10.7.5, but you skipped through 4 intermediate versions of the OS before installing Sierra. Yes, maybe things were OK, and maybe they still would have been fine if you had not interrupted the OS 10.12.2 upgrade, but that was still a HUGE jump. And especially when you had not been doing much (maybe none?) disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs. When Apple releases OS 10.13 (or whatever they call it), I will upgrade (again as long as my 6 critical apps are either fine as they are, or upgrades are released), but it will be via a fresh, clean, "virgin" installation of the new OS. I suspect given all that I do, that would not be necessary. But, it's the way I want to go.
 
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You're most welcome. Hopefully, things will go smoothly. And I cannot stress enough how valuable it is to perform disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs. One other thing I forgot to mention regarding that is TechTool can also perform both file and volume optimization on your internal drive. In case you don't know what it is, think of a clothes draw that has become disorganized. You are having difficulty finding that pair of socks you want to wear, but ultimately you do. If you take the time to straighten things out, then the next time you'll find the socks quicker. Well, file and volume defragmentation/optimization is the same concept, but with just about all the stuff on your internal drive. (This process is a no no for SSDs). Your machine will run smoother after doing that.
 

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