Can I install Yosemite 10.10.3 over El Capitan 10.11.4 on Mac HD?

[ranger1]

Hello all,

Can I reinstall Yosemite OSX 10.10.3 over El Capitan OSX 10.11.4 (stupid name - capricious behaviour?) on my internal Mac HD, please?

Since I installed El Capitan over Yosemite on my default system (internal Mac HD), many installed, non Apple applications will not work or are severely compromised. Some example are:-
• Adobe Photoshop Elements 8 (installed from disk) - clipboard will neither import nor export. Installation disc cannot be read under El Capitan.
• Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 (installed via App Store) - Attempting to 'save/save as' causes program to freeze; all work and panel location adjustments are lost.
• FrameByFrame (installed via App Store) - Instantly quits after 'double clicking' to open.
• MPEG Streamclip v. 1.9.2 and/or v. 1.9.3b8 - will recognise video clip name; will not recognise file type; cannot find video or audio files. No update exists. This open source program's capabilities are exclusive and very extensive and there is no commercial alternative available to purchase.
• SnapMotion v. 2.3 (installed via App Store) - trying to extract stills from video clip opens window "Default components of Quicktime cannot read movie file..."

All these programs work as designed when I startup from my external HD with Yosemite OSX 10.10.3 as active system. I cannot make 'changes to system' however as no user name is accepted although a newly altered and known is entered correctly.

I will be grateful for any advice you may suggest. Thanking you, I remain

Yours sincerely, ranger1.

 

[Cory Cooper]

Hi again,

No, you can't install an older version of OS X over a newer one. You would need to erase the had drive and perform a new install.

-FrameByFrame: It looks like development has been discontinued, since it is no longer on the App Store for purchase and the newest version is 1.7 or 1.8 released in 2013 and available for download via SourceForge or Softonic. You will need to find a replacement application for this as well, like Boinx iStopMotion. You could try to download version 1.7 or 1.8, but it probably won't run on El Capitan either. I believe the latest version from the App Store before it was removed was 1.10?

Did you ever determine which user is the correct one on the external running Mac OS X Yosemite 10.10.3 from your other post?

C

 

[ranger1]

Hello again Cory Cooper,

To adapt to the user / password incompatibility issues of the external HD, I followed the advice at <https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18653?locale=en_US>. FileVault was not active before, during or after any part of this exercise.

The users on external HD show differently when Mac HD OSX 10.11.4 (Mac HD) is active system and External HD icon is selected > 'File/Get Info' . displays users "admin"; "rangertest (Me)"; "staff"; "everyone".

After restarting, holding down r, selecting external HD as system to load (10.10.3), performing the same 'File/Get Info' action on External HD icon displays a different users list e.g. "paulcollins"; "paulrangercollins" (from memory).

Doing the "reset password" exercise at above link, using "Terminal", I selected "paulrangercollins" and entered a new password XXXX.

No problems arose until I did an action which the 10.10.3 system regarded as a 'system' change and required a user to be selected.
After selecting "paulrangercollins" as active user and entering new password XXXX, the window 'shuddered' but would not accept the entered user and/or password.

When I need to use any of the El Capitan incompatible programs I listed earlier, I restart using r > select External HD > enter. I just cannot do anything that the (10.10.3) system regards as a 'system change because the system will not accept the existing user and the changed/newly created password combination.

I hope my explanation is not overly confusing upon your perusal but, as I am savvy in neither terminology nor procedures, these details are my best attempt at description I can manage.

One thought I have is: what if I restart, r, select External HD, then try to create a new user (with external OSX 10.10.3 as active system) and then create another new password. Do you think that might enable me to select the new user/password combination to satisfy the external system 'requirement for acceptable user/password combination when it arises, please?

Sincerely, ranger1.

 

[ranger1]

Hello again Cory Cooper,

Do you think starting with external HD Yosemite 10.10.3 as active System, then creating a new user/password combination is a possible alternative to enable me full access to all folders and software/updates on that external HD, please?

Sincerely, ranger 1.

 

[Cory Cooper]

Sorry I haven't replied until now. I need to digest this a bit more, as it is a bit confusing.

I will get back to you later today...

C

 

[Cory Cooper]

I re-read this and am now thinking you may possibly be having permissions issues. If you are simply trying to access files on the external drive, and not run applications, you can simply open a Get Info window on the external HD, click the lock and enter your password, and check Ignore ownership on this volume. That will allow you to access all files on the external HD when started up from your internal drive. However, it may need to be disabled again if you are going to startup from the external drive.

Does that seem to be part of your issue?

C

 

[ranger1]

I re-read this and am now thinking you may possibly be having permissions issues. If you are simply trying to access files on the external drive, and not run applications, you can simply open a Get Info window on the external HD, click the lock and enter your password, and check Ignore ownership on this volume. That will allow you to access all files on the external HD when started up from your internal drive. However, it may need to be disabled again if you are going to startup from the external drive.

Does that seem to be part of your issue?

C

Hello Cory Cooper,

I type this entry with my Mac HD El Capitan 10.11.4 as active system. I have copied "Install OS X Yosemite" installer onto a formatted but blank 2TB external HD.

With internal El Capitan active system, double clicking the Installer icon on the 2TB external HD opens a warning window saying "This copy of the "Install OS X" application is too old to be opened on this (El Capitan) version of OS X."

After rebooting with external 500GB HB Yosemite 10.10.3 as active system, double clicking the Installer icon on the 2TB external HD opens a window requiring a valid User name and valid Password. I believed I had already changed the password for ALL external 500GB HD users to 1234. However, this does not work in reality; all User/Password combinations are rejected.

As I understand my situation, the seemingly insurmountable problem is that (with the external HD Yosemite OSX 10.10.3 as the active system, I cannot get that system to recognise/accept any User/Password combination.

The folder "ExternalHD"/Users path shows 3 folders: paulcollins - paulranger - Shared.

The "ExternalHD" icon/Get Info path shows 4 users (?): admin - rangertest (Me) - staff - everyone. I cannot click the lock to make any changes because User/Password invalidity.
NB. "rangertest (Me)" is a user on Mac HD 10.11.4, should not appear as user of external 500GB HD.

All displayed "ExternalHD"icon/Get Info path Users have Read & Write privileges.
NB. NO "ExternalHD"/Users folder users (i.e. paulcollins - paulranger - Shared) appear in Get Info window users of the same external 500GB HD.

With external 10.10.3 OS X as active system (i.e. after reboot), if I reach a situation where I newly create a fresh user and a fresh password that that system will accept, I think the problem of me having full access to the external 500GB HD would be resolved.

Sincerely, PaulRanger2.

P.S. I apologise for all the repetitive detailing of each external HD; it helps me to keep track. Something that may occur when internal 10.11.4 is active may or may not occur after rebooting with external 10.10.3 is active. I thank you for your patience.

 

[Cory Cooper]

I didn't forget you...reply forthcoming.

C

 

[Cory Cooper]

I still believe the issue you are describing is a permissions issue when trying to access files on a drive you are not started up from.

-Do you need/use all of the users on the internal and external hard drives?
-You can temporarily turn off permissions for a drive, so you can access any files on it by clicking on the lock in the Get Info Window, entering the password of the account you are currently logged into, the checking the box next to Ignore ownership on this volume.

Do you have data/files in all of the users you listed on the internal and external drives?
External
paulcollins
paulranger

Internal
rangertest

C

 

[ranger1]

With internal 10.11.4 active system
On internal Mac HD 10.11.4, clicking MacHD icon/Users folder which opens and contains 2 users only "rangertest" and "Shared".
All internal HD 'User' folders contain folders and/or files which I interrogate and use.
On internal Mac HD 10.11.4 Get Info window shows 5 Names:- 'admin', 'rangertest (Me), 'system', 'admin' (again), everyone.
ALL have Read & Write privileges.
See file "16-05-23 MacHD/Users/UserFolders/permissions"

With external 10.10.3 active system
On external 500GB HD, clicking FBS/Users folder opens and contains 3 users only "paulcollins", "paulranger" "Shared".
All external FBS 'User' folders contain folders and/or files. Only User/paulcollins folders/files are accessible. User/paulranger are locked (?) with red barred icon overlaying all folders therein. However, with internal 10.11.4 active, both folders' contents are accessible.

NOTE. After restarting from internal Mac HD 10.11.4 and pressing 'option' key throughout startup, a window opens showing "Paul Ranger", "Paul Ranger Slim", "others...". Entering password 1234 enables startup to complete.

On external FBS HD 10.10.3 Get Info window shows 4 Names:- 'admin' 'system', wheel' everyone. ALL have Read & Write access.
See file "16-05-23 FBS Users/UserFolders/permissions"

With external 10.10.3 active and "Install OS X Yosemite" installer copied onto the formatted 2TB external HD, double clicking the Installer icon on the 2TB HD opens a window under 10.10.3 on 500GB external HD, "In order to continue installing OS X, you need to login as an administrator. Type an administrator's name and password to allow this." If I could enter and administrator's name and password into external Yosemite system, I believe that the Installer on the 2TB HD would install Yosemite there.
See file " YosemiteInstallerOn2TBneedsAdminUserPassword onFBS.jpg"

With internal El Capitan active , the Yosemite Installer on the 2 TB HD is declared "too old" to work.

I apologise for the deep confusion my situation must be causing among you; as a comparative 'rank amateur' I am quite "at sea" myself.

Thanking you again for your generosity, I remain

Yours sincerely, ranger1.

 

[Cory Cooper]

I am sorry it took so long to respond. This issue is quite confusing, and it took me a while to re-read everything and form some thoughts.

It still seems that you are stuck in a permissions issue, designated by the Get Info window list of users you mentioned. When you login to a user, you only have access privileges to files within that user's home folder. Others will show the red prohibitive sign...that's how OS X protects each user's data. I know that permissions can be difficult to follow, as well as which password the system is prompting you for. I understand that you have the two OS X systems installed due to some older software not working with El Capitan. But, running both of them is causing you confusion, as it is not easy to synchronize all of your files between two installations of OS X. The ideal setup would be to have El Capitan on the internal HD, Yosemite on the external HD, and all of your files on a third HD. You could then access them easily from either version of OS X, without running into the permissions issue. You would also need a fourth HD to have some form of Time Machine or other backup of your files, for when one or more drives fail.

Let's summarize where this stands:
-The OS X Yosemite installer will not work the way you have it setup - when running a newer version of OS X. You would have to create an install disc on an external hard drive or flash drive, startup from it, then proceed. I don't believe you need to do a reinstall at this point, we just need to consolidate the users and files.
-You have two versions of OS X installed: Macintosh HD internal (10.11.4) and FatBoySlim 10.10.3 external (10.10.3).
-You have a total of three users: internal rangertest and external paulcollins and paulranger. Both drives will show the Shared user.
-Before all of this began, which user was the one you used and that contains all of your files?
-Do you need all three of the users? Do those all contain files you need to save?
-From your screenshots, it seems you have two external hard drives, FatBoySlim 10.10.3 (500 GB) and Install OS X Yosemite (2 TB), correct?
-You have the two OS X systems installed due to some older software not working with El Capitan.
-The best solution seems to be to either use the Yosemite install, which allows use of the apps you mentioned previously, or use El Capitan and update/upgrade/replace the software that doesn't work.

Do you have access to an Apple Store near you? This could be more easily explained and corrected in person. It can be quite difficult to work on an issue like this via the Internet, without having hands-on access to the Mac and the hard drives. I really hate to give up on trying to explain and correct this issue, but I don’t want you to lose any data and want to ensure that you get complete understanding of the root of the issues you are experiencing. I am more than willing to continue, but an Apple Store visit may be the best solution here.

Hope that helps a little,

C